Comments on: Church for Insiders or Outsiders? http://www.kyeschung.com/blog/2007/church-for-insiders-or-outsiders/ Can't believe I'm blogging ... Sat, 22 Nov 2008 03:40:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: shawn http://www.kyeschung.com/blog/2007/church-for-insiders-or-outsiders/#comment-9775 shawn Sat, 09 Jun 2007 05:51:35 +0000 http://www.kyeschung.com/blog/index.php/2007/church-for-insiders-or-outsiders/#comment-9775 hey kye, randomly came upon this blog =) hope you are well... love the house kudos. on this entry i have more questions and observations than answers... the "non christians" who are touched by the ministries we have and the individual members of our church get connected emotionally, spiritually etc. through the kind of community they experience in the church. but that very community is eroding from the very same sentiments shared in your entry (the dissatisfaction of the churched/mature). so with our limited young adult time, we seek out those who are outside... and have little or no time to create the community to which we can connect them to? Also, i am finding that for many living in the postmodern, authentic worship is ok.... meaning not everything has to be explained or translated or made seeker friendly... Can I appreciate worship in a different culture without the expectation that they convert their worship for my perspective (though once in a while, or little ways would help)? books that have challenged me over the past 3 years... Generous orthodoxy Good to great (and the addendum for social sectors) tipping point missional churches (the kimball one) churches under the radar freakanomics Bible (still!?) and now discover your strengths strengthsfinder 2.0) how full is your bucket Misquoting Jesus purple cow free prize inside etc... I'm in the 2nd year of NCD (grant wise) though we have been in existence since oct 2004 peace hey kye,
randomly came upon this blog =) hope you are well… love the house kudos.
on this entry i have more questions and observations than answers…

the “non christians” who are touched by the ministries we have and the individual members of our church get connected emotionally, spiritually etc. through the kind of community they experience in the church.
but that very community is eroding from the very same sentiments shared in your entry (the dissatisfaction of the churched/mature).
so with our limited young adult time, we seek out those who are outside… and have little or no time to create the community to which we can connect them to?
Also, i am finding that for many living in the postmodern, authentic worship is ok…. meaning not everything has to be explained or translated or made seeker friendly… Can I appreciate worship in a different culture without the expectation that they convert their worship for my perspective (though once in a while, or little ways would help)?

books that have challenged me over the past 3 years…
Generous orthodoxy
Good to great (and the addendum for social sectors)
tipping point
missional churches (the kimball one)
churches under the radar
freakanomics
Bible (still!?)
and now discover your strengths
strengthsfinder 2.0)
how full is your bucket
Misquoting Jesus
purple cow
free prize inside
etc…

I’m in the 2nd year of NCD (grant wise) though we have been in existence since oct 2004

peace

]]> By: Paul http://www.kyeschung.com/blog/2007/church-for-insiders-or-outsiders/#comment-9731 Paul Thu, 07 Jun 2007 17:47:29 +0000 http://www.kyeschung.com/blog/index.php/2007/church-for-insiders-or-outsiders/#comment-9731 You have to be careful to bring people along as you make the change from inward to outward however. If you don't you'll go out on a limb by yourself, and be accused of being 1. Unfeeling and distant 2. Caring about visitors more than your native flock A consultant I work with calls the process: "messing with their DNA". I'm inclined to agree, because it represents changing the institution from the inside out. Most of us try to do it from the outside in... when we do, "pushback" is the natural consequence from an inwardly focused church. Depending upon the strength of their pushback, you could be looking for another job. "Fear ye, all who enter these gates..." You have to be careful to bring people along as you make the change from inward to outward however. If you don’t you’ll go out on a limb by yourself, and be accused of being

1. Unfeeling and distant
2. Caring about visitors more than your native flock

A consultant I work with calls the process: “messing with their DNA”. I’m inclined to agree, because it represents changing the institution from the inside out. Most of us try to do it from the outside in… when we do, “pushback” is the natural consequence from an inwardly focused church. Depending upon the strength of their pushback, you could be looking for another job.

“Fear ye, all who enter these gates…”

]]> By: David Park http://www.kyeschung.com/blog/2007/church-for-insiders-or-outsiders/#comment-7270 David Park Fri, 16 Feb 2007 00:58:45 +0000 http://www.kyeschung.com/blog/index.php/2007/church-for-insiders-or-outsiders/#comment-7270 Great post and fascinating question. There was an article on the Relevant website about this very issue about how long-time churchgoers are leaving churches because they're not getting "fed". I'd have to say that's like graduates of culinary school wondering why they can't come back and eat in the cafeteria. It's a complex problem, I think that stems from the church not clearly articulating that the onus is on disciples to go disciple others. Perhaps the problem is that many churches have implicitly made itself the center of society rather than sending people out to every corner of society, which is akin to blood not circulating to the rest of the body because the heart is so important. I've only heard this from the pulpit once when a pastor said, "I feel like I see too many of you in here. Get out there in the real world and do something. Quit asking us (the church) to rally in politics, entertainment, or education. That's not our job --that's your job!" I found that to be very empowering and instead of feeling like I had to be dependent to the point of not having any responsibility, I felt more responsible about the evangelion that I had been given, which was exactly the point. But I haven't heard that in Asian American churches...I would like to though. Great post and fascinating question. There was an article on the Relevant website about this very issue about how long-time churchgoers are leaving churches because they’re not getting “fed”. I’d have to say that’s like graduates of culinary school wondering why they can’t come back and eat in the cafeteria. It’s a complex problem, I think that stems from the church not clearly articulating that the onus is on disciples to go disciple others. Perhaps the problem is that many churches have implicitly made itself the center of society rather than sending people out to every corner of society, which is akin to blood not circulating to the rest of the body because the heart is so important. I’ve only heard this from the pulpit once when a pastor said, “I feel like I see too many of you in here. Get out there in the real world and do something. Quit asking us (the church) to rally in politics, entertainment, or education. That’s not our job –that’s your job!” I found that to be very empowering and instead of feeling like I had to be dependent to the point of not having any responsibility, I felt more responsible about the evangelion that I had been given, which was exactly the point. But I haven’t heard that in Asian American churches…I would like to though.

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